Intel's Core 2 Extreme & Core 2 Duo: The Empire Strikes Back
by Anand Lal Shimpi on July 14, 2006 12:00 AM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
Gaming with Core 2 and CrossFire on 975X
We were so used to getting excited over AMD processor launches that we almost forgot what an important Intel CPU launch was like. You see, AMD and Intel behave very differently when at a dinner table preparing to eat their meals. AMD will eat when its partners eat; companies like ATI and NVIDIA get to share in the joy of a new AMD product launch as they are busy building chipsets for the new platform. That's why we get a new nForce chipset whenever AMD launches a new CPU. Intel on the other hand isn't as generous; Intel likes to eat first, and then whatever remains after it's nice and full can be scraped off the table and given to its partners. This is why today's launch is taking place pretty much exclusively on Intel chipsets, with retail products based on ATI/NVIDIA chipsets shipping in the coming months.
Intel's table manners aren't as nice as AMD's largely because they don't have to be. Intel has a lot more fabs than AMD, however they aren't all pumping out 65nm Core 2 Duos on 300mm wafers; instead many of them are still using old 90nm or 130nm process technology. It's not exactly economically feasible to keep converting all of the fabs to the latest technology as soon as it's available, so Intel uses up excess capacity in its older fabs by producing chipsets. AMD does not have this luxury so it depends on companies like ATI, NVIDIA, SiS and VIA for the platform side of things, and thus is much nicer at the dinner table.
Eating habits aside, what this means for us is that our only real options to test Core 2 Duo are with Intel chipsets. NVIDIA's nForce 590 SLI reference board for Core 2 Duo is in our labs but its BIOS isn't finalized yet so NVIDIA is asking us to hold off on using it for a couple more weeks. At the same time, we're hearing that we shouldn't expect any retail motherboards using ATI chipsets for Core 2 Duo motherboards until September at the earliest, once again leaving us with Intel.
Don't get us wrong; Intel chipsets are far from a terrible option. In fact, Intel continues to make extremely trouble-free platforms. It's not stability or performance that we're concerned about, as Intel has got both of those down pat. The issue however is multi-GPU compatibility.
You see, NVIDIA is a lot like Intel in that it wants to eat first or maybe, if the right people are at the table, at the same time as its partners. The problem with two companies that have identical eating habits is that no one ends up eating, and thus we have no SLI support on Intel chipsets. NVIDIA views this as an upper hand because honestly it's the only tangible advantage anyone has ever held over an Intel chipset since the days when Intel and Rambus were inseparable. If you want the best multi-GPU solution on the market you buy NVIDIA graphics cards, but they won't run (together) on Intel chipsets so you've got to buy the NVIDIA chipset as well - sounds like NVIDIA is trying to eat some of Intel's dinner, and this doesn't make Intel very happy.
Luckily for Intel, there's this little agreement it has with NVIDIA's chief competitor - ATI. Among other things, it makes sure that Intel platforms (or platform in this case, since it only officially works on the 975X) can support CrossFire, ATI's multi-GPU technology. Unfortunately, CrossFire isn't nearly as polished as NVIDIA's SLI. Case in point would be benchmarking for this Core 2 Duo article, which used a pair of X1900 XTs running in CrossFire mode. During our testing, CrossFire decided to disable itself after a simple reboot - twice. No warnings, no hardware changes, just lower frame rates after a reboot and a CrossFire enable checkbox that had become unchecked. Needless to say it was annoying, but by now we already know that CrossFire needs work and ATI is on it.
More than anything this is simply a message to ATI and Intel: if CrossFire had been in better shape, the high end gaming enthusiast could have been satisfied today, but instead they will have to wait a little longer for the first nForce 500 motherboards with Core 2 support to arrive (or settle for a nForce 4 board with Core 2 support).
Why does multi-GPU even matter? Given how fast Intel's Core 2 processors are, we needed to pair them with a GPU setup that was well matched - in this case we went with a pair of X1900 XTs running in CrossFire mode. With a pair of X1900 XTs we could run at 1600 x 1200 for all of our gaming tests, achieving a good balance between CPU and GPU loads and adequately characterizing the gaming performance of Intel's Core 2 line.
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soydios - Friday, July 14, 2006 - link
Awesome article, as always from AT. Between the article and the 100+ comments above this one, almost all my Conroe questions have been answered.;)
johnsonx - Friday, July 14, 2006 - link
Wow is all I can say. I don't think there's ever been a performance jump quite like this. AMD will still do ok (not win mind you) on the low-end, where most people live, but the mid-range and high-end is so overwhelmingly in Intel's camp now there's just no comparison. AMD would have to go to 3.4Ghz+ to even be competitive (and still not win mind you).My office computers will continue to be AMD Sempron for the forseeable future (AM2 from now on of course), but next time someone wants a CAD box I don't see how I can quote anything but Core 2 Duo.
Also, loved the dinner table analogy on page 13.
crimson117 - Friday, July 14, 2006 - link
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/07/13/dell_xps700_to_f...">http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/07/13/dell_xps700_to_f..."Grapevine (TX) - On the day Intel announces its next generation of Conroe desktop processors - which is expected within days - Dell Computer will upgrade its top-of-the-line XPS 700 desktop computer model to offer not only an overclocked Core 2 Extreme CPU, but also the option of two Nvidia GeForce 7900 GTX cards in SLI mode. These will apparently replace the Pentium Extreme processor and GeForce 7900 GS options currently available, and will be in addition to the Aegia PhysX accelerator already offered."
epsilonparadox - Friday, July 14, 2006 - link
Probably an Nf4 chipset since there are motherboards with conroe support using Nf4.Avalon - Friday, July 14, 2006 - link
This is one fine architecture. It wound up performing as well as I had suspected it would. Definitely wow.cgrecu77 - Friday, July 14, 2006 - link
I gambled by purchasing a A64 3700+ a few weeks ago when it dropped to under 150 ...If I were to upgrade to the cheapest solo I would probably have to pay 500 dollars or more (new cpu, mb and memory) and I will probably get ~ performance in games. I stopped overclokcing a long time ago (except for maybe 10%) because I am tired of my new system becoming unstable after 4 months (plus I don't really need it anymore since nothing I do is really cpu limited).
98% of people actually buy the cheapest CPUs in a range (A64 2800-3200, x2 3800, C6300). That's where the real competition will be and frankly I'm not impressed at all, A64 is an ~3years old processor and intel's newest product can only beat it by 20%? As far as I can remember the Athlon 3200+ was even worse in comparison to P4 3,2 Ghz and most people still bought the 2500+ Bartons ... So I wouldn't worry too much if I were an AMD stock holder, especially that it looks like Opterons still have no competition in the multi cpu servers (more than 2 ...).
After all, if Dell decided to use AMD NOW of all times it must mean something, they probably had access to these benchmarks a little earlier than Anand had ... :)
One thing I would have expected to see for such a new CPU that is supposed to carry the Intel flag for the next 2 years is 64 bit performance. This is probably the last year when 32bit OSes have the upper hand, starting with Vista most people will take advantage of their 64bit cpus. Once the majors concentrate on 64 bit drivers you can be sure that they will gradually take resource from the 32 bit development and the balance will shift very quickly ... If A64 has even a 10% advantage over the Cores combined with the .65 switch it will probably balance the equation to the point where core and a64 will have similar performance per clock ...
dargaard - Saturday, July 15, 2006 - link
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pag...">Some Conroe problems (??) with 64 bitdev0lution - Friday, July 14, 2006 - link
First off, why mention Core Solo when it's totally unrelated to this article and any of the comments?
Second, socket 939's days are already numbered. You'd have to pay the same $500 to upgrade to the AM2 processors benched in the article, so mentioning this as a diss to Core 2 Duo is pretty weak.
So you'd have the option of spending $500 to upgrade to a E6600 setup that would beat out a $1200+ AM2 setup. Sounds like a no-brainer. And if you think AMD's going to slash prices below Intel's parts I don't think you can hold your breath that long.
And 98% of people don't even build their own computers, they buy tier-1... who aren't making nearly that percentage of their systems with the lowest end parts.
Looks like I'll have a 3200, 3700 and 4000 (939 parts) for sale in the near future...
MrKaz - Monday, July 17, 2006 - link
OK.But if you dont want to spent more than 120$ for the processor, the Conroe looks expensive.
aznskickass - Friday, July 14, 2006 - link
Dude, 20% is a HUGE margin when you are talking competitive benchmarks.When A64 was released back in 2003 it had about a 10% edge on the P4 and people were lauding it for it's leap in performance, and rightly so, considering the AXPs were getting beaten by 10%, so it was a 20% turnaround altogether.
This time around, it's even more impressive from Intel as they have turned a 10 - 20% performance deficit into a 20% advantage, you really can't expect much more than that, can you?
What did you expect Intel to do, double A64 performance? I'm sure if they ran their chips @ 4GHz/400FSB they might be able to get close to that, but what is the point when you have beaten your competition so convincingly already?